Emma Steele on The Love of Our Lives: Love, Loss & Second Chances
This was such a fun conversation with Emma Steele, we’ve been chatting online for a while so it really felt like catching up with a friend. In this episode we talk about Emma’s fabulous new novel, The Love of Our Lives, her writing life, what draws her to write speculative fiction and of course the five books that shaped her life (well there were a few more than 5).
And of course, no episode of Best Book Forward would be complete without book recommendations! Here’s everything we mentioned, with links to buy:
📚 By Emma Steele
📚 The Books that have shaped Emma
After You'd Gone by Maggie O'Farrell
Little Women by Louisa May Alcott
The Time Traveller's Wife by Audrey Niffenegger
The Housemaid by Frieda McFadden
The Nightingale by Kristin Hannah
✨ Books Mentioned
Someone Else's Shoes by JoJo Moyes
The Great Alone by Kristin Hannah
I’ll be back next week with another author conversation, and I’d love for you to join me for that too.
In the meantime, if you’ve enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review Best Book Forward, and don’t forget to tell your friends... it really helps new listeners discover the show.
See you tomorrow, and happy listening.
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Transcript
Welcome back to Best Book Forward.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Helen, and this is the podcast where I talk to authors about the books that have shaped their lives.
Speaker A:It's basically like a bookish version of Desert Island Discs.
Speaker A:Today, I'm delighted to be welcoming Emma Steele to the show.
Speaker A: ebut the Echoes of us back in: Speaker A: s, was published in September: Speaker A:I absolutely loved this book.
Speaker A:The Love of Our Lives tells the story of Maggie, a woman who is struggling to move on with her life following a heart transplant.
Speaker A:One day she wakes up in the body of her donor a year before her surgery, and this gives her the opportunity to learn how to finally live her life.
Speaker A:Emma joins me today to chat about the love for our lives, to try talk about the inspiration, her writing life, and of course, the five books that have shaped her life.
Speaker A:So let's jump straight in and give Emma a warm welcome to the show.
Speaker A:Emma, welcome.
Speaker A:And thank you so much for joining our Best Book Forward today.
Speaker B:Thanks very much for having me.
Speaker B:It's lovely to be here.
Speaker A:I feel like we've just chatted a lot before we came on, but we do talk a lot on Instagram as well, so I feel like I know you, so I'm really looking forward.
Speaker A:It's funny, isn't it, when you chat to people online, it's like it's just.
Speaker B:Continuing a conversation today.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker A:I love that and I love your books.
Speaker A:And we're here today, so we're recording at the end of November and we're here to talk about the Love of Our Lives, which is a book.
Speaker A:I absolutely adored recommending it to everyone.
Speaker A:So thank you.
Speaker A:Do you want to start off by giving listeners a flavor of what it is all about?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So basically it is the story of Maggie and she.
Speaker B:She has had a heart transplant the year before, but she's.
Speaker B:For various reasons, she's very much struggling to move on with her life and essentially live life to the full.
Speaker B:And one day she collapses and when she wakes up, she wakes up in a body she doesn't know and an apartment she doesn't know and she isn't aware of.
Speaker B:The fact is her heart donor's body essentially, and she has to learn to live and to love again and eventually make quite an impossible choice towards the end of the story.
Speaker B:So that's it in a nutshell.
Speaker A:Basically, I felt myself getting A bit emotional.
Speaker A:Then the ending, I was like, oh, yes, it was hard.
Speaker B:It was hard that ending though, because I didn't even know where it was going for ages.
Speaker B:That was the thing.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:Are we.
Speaker A:Should we dive into that and then sort of.
Speaker B:Yeah, whatever works.
Speaker A:Let's go.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So no, actually, let's not, because I've got other questions going to feed in.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:We're going to stick to the plan.
Speaker A:We'll stick to the plan.
Speaker A:So I just said to you, I do find that this is quite a hard book to talk about.
Speaker A:One, for spoilers and two, because there are so many things, like really beautiful topics, interesting topics that we could talk about, but we're not going to be able to do a four hour episode.
Speaker A:So I have just tried to sort of cherry pick some things and I will just talk to you about the rest on Instagram.
Speaker B:That will help me as well.
Speaker A:Okay, perfect.
Speaker A:So let's start by talking about the inspiration behind the Love of Our Lives.
Speaker A:Was the initial spark a character, one of the secrets or the heart transplant?
Speaker A:What came first?
Speaker A:Or was it like sort of?
Speaker A:Well, you just said you didn't know where it was going, so I'm interested.
Speaker A:Tell us.
Speaker B:I think as with probably a lot of stories, the first initial spark was I had an image of a woman crossing, I think she was crossing a road in my head.
Speaker B:And I had this idea that she could be very much connected with another woman and not know it.
Speaker B:Because in my first book it was so much about the romantic relationship at the start between a man and a woman and that shared experience with a phenomenon.
Speaker B:And for this one, I don't know why, but I was really interested about how two women could be connected.
Speaker B:And I loved JoJo Mo's book, In Her Shoes, for example.
Speaker B:And I love this whole notion of how women can be walking in very different walks of life but actually be much more similar than they realize and much more connected than they realize.
Speaker B:But I wanted to the romance to be through it as always, because I love romance.
Speaker B:But that was the sort of.
Speaker B:The first seed of it was how could I connect two women's lives to each other with a phenomenon?
Speaker B:Because I wanted it to sort of feel like my first book but be different.
Speaker B:And when I went away and researched more phenomena now, which is really interesting topic, trying to sort of hunt around for interesting ways to connect people, I. I came across the heart donor theory.
Speaker B:Well, it is a thing where if you've had a heart transplant, oftentimes people will take on parts of the donor's personalities and they'll remember things.
Speaker B:And there's lots of books that have, and films as well that have dealt with the topic, including Last Christmas, which I always refer to.
Speaker A:I love that film.
Speaker B:I really enjoyed it.
Speaker B:But I remember at the time almost being slightly annoyed because in it, Emilia Clarke's character, she.
Speaker B:She's had a heart transplant and she's really grumpy in it.
Speaker B:But I had this thing where I loved the film, but I never felt they.
Speaker B:They fully explained why she was so grumpy.
Speaker B:And I was like, I think that set off some thoughts in my head of.
Speaker B:I think there's another story in this that I could do with a different twist, but it is ultimately sort of a take on what Last Christmas did, but with a totally different twist around it as to what's happening.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I did.
Speaker B:That definitely was a bit of an inspiration there.
Speaker B:And I think once I found that whole concept point of, oh, she could wake up in the heart donor's body, like, that would be super interesting.
Speaker B:And particularly someone that isn't living for themselves and then they're put in someone else's body.
Speaker B:So then I think I had it in my head that automatically they're going to be again thinking about what should I do for that other person?
Speaker B:Because they're still not thinking of themselves.
Speaker B:So how.
Speaker B:How would she be forced to actually live her life finally in this completely different life?
Speaker B:And, yeah, once I had that kind of all those thoughts kind of going around in my head, I got quite excited and that's where it started flowing from.
Speaker B:But I will say that it took a while to kind of get the story to where it needed to go, because I wrote about 20,000 words pre transplant, which eventually got I entirely cut out with the help of one of my reader friends.
Speaker B:So I suddenly realized that actually it was the point that she had the heart, that she had been living with it for a while.
Speaker B:That's where the story began and that's where the.
Speaker B:The book kicks off.
Speaker A:There's so much that you've just said that I'm like, oh, I'm fizzing over here.
Speaker A:So, first of all, I love when writers say this, that they see a character.
Speaker A:You know, I'm like, why didn't I get that bit of the brain?
Speaker A:Why does my brain not do things like that?
Speaker A:I want a refund.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:These characters living in my head, though, I love it.
Speaker A:I just think it's so exciting that that's how I just.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:And that's really interesting what you say about last Christmas, because I did.
Speaker A:I love that movie.
Speaker A:But as you were talking, I was sort of trying to think of the differences, and I think what your book does do really, really well.
Speaker A:You know, Maggie is so grateful for this chance she's been given, but she is like.
Speaker A:She's got a lot of grief.
Speaker A:You know, she's.
Speaker A:There's so much going on for her that actually.
Speaker A:Oh, I don't want to spoil it, but.
Speaker A:No, that is so, so clever, so interesting.
Speaker A:And I love how that's all sort of formed in your mind.
Speaker A:But also, I think starting it before the transplant, I don't know, just the way it sort of leads in and the way you sort of tell her story through, I think it just has a real impact because you're like, I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:You know, you can.
Speaker A:You can guess what she went through in these sort of years leading up to her needing it.
Speaker B:You know, you know, she's ill and.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And, you know, that would have been really hard, but I guess it was.
Speaker B:That interesting thing about storytelling, any story is where is the story?
Speaker B:Like, where does the interesting parts of the story happen?
Speaker B:And actually it's.
Speaker B:It's after she's got.
Speaker B:She's got the heart that.
Speaker B:That was.
Speaker B:And it took a while for me to get there, to be like, no, that.
Speaker B:That the story happens way later than I even recognized.
Speaker B:Because you've got to keep readers interested as well.
Speaker B:I think that's the thing.
Speaker B:And if you bring them in too early into something, then they can lose interest quite quickly.
Speaker B:I think that's the thing.
Speaker A:Would it have also taken it into.
Speaker A:Because, I mean, it is a very emotional book, but would it have taken it into sort of slightly depressing as.
Speaker B:Well if you were sort of, like, medicalized?
Speaker B:Just a bit more medicalized.
Speaker B:And I actually, for fun, because I had all this information, so I have it sitting here, but I have this, like, deleted scene that the publisher whipped up for me for book clubs.
Speaker B:And there is something from those first 20 that I was like, I may as well make use of this.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I have.
Speaker B:At least I've made use of a small segment of it at the point of, you know, things kicking off in those first 20,000 words.
Speaker B:So at least it wasn't completely wasted words.
Speaker B:And it did.
Speaker B:I think no writing is wasted writing.
Speaker B:I think all writing leads you to another point or teaches you where the story begins or ends or what's interesting to people or not.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it wasn't wasted.
Speaker B:That's what I'm telling myself.
Speaker A:No, no, I want to read that little scene as well.
Speaker A:Now I'm like, oh, thank you.
Speaker A:So at its core, the love of our lives is, you know, it was a romance story.
Speaker A:Here it's got a great tagline, which I love, which says, can you truly follow your heart if it belonged to someone else first?
Speaker A:I thought it was so clever.
Speaker A:It's like lost love, new heart.
Speaker A:All this stuff I thought was so brilliant.
Speaker A:It really sort of draws you into the story.
Speaker A:How challenging was it to write a romance where the woman is actually living in somebody else's body?
Speaker A:So as I said to you before, it's like, you know, if you sit and really think about it, it's like, oh, confusing, but it works.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:Do you know, it was firstly, it was super fun to write.
Speaker B:I love that kind of thing, placing someone out of the ordinary situation.
Speaker B:But it was, it was actually ultimately quite a hard book to make look smooth.
Speaker B:I think that's what it was.
Speaker B:So it went through several iterations, I would say.
Speaker B:And in a.
Speaker B:In a lovely way I was really lucky because for various reasons I had multiple editors that looked at it and I had my.
Speaker B:My German editor, she had a run at it, and two UK editors because at that point the publisher was going through a buy over.
Speaker B:So it was two to three editors.
Speaker B:I actually had my foreign rights agent also had a look at it and it was funny because in a lovely way, each person actually added a little bit extra to it.
Speaker B:So I had this wonderful sort of support system around it as well.
Speaker B:But it was a very hard book in some ways to write because I was trying to thread two women's arcs into one arc and make it look smooth for the reader to read and to understand it.
Speaker B:And I spent quite a few nights in the middle of the night staring up at the ceiling, trying to figure out like, how they're.
Speaker B:How their journeys mirrored each other and the points they got to.
Speaker B:Because without giving too much away, I felt that for Maggie, she very much was starting small and, and growing into herself and getting bigger and getting more out there.
Speaker B:And then for the heart donor, it was more about coming smaller again and actually slowing down.
Speaker B:And I think for women in different situations, actually it.
Speaker B:They have both kind of journeys where some women need to slow down their lives and actually breathe and for other women, they are incredibly anxious.
Speaker B:They actually need to stretch their wings a little bit.
Speaker B:But I think both ultimately is what I realized, came back to the point of do you know, like every.
Speaker B:Every day that you have is like a special day and you can have adventures on your doorstep and you.
Speaker B:You don't actually need to go and conquer the world in order to live life to the full.
Speaker B:And that's the point I wanted to get to at the heart of.
Speaker B:Of the novel.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I mean, that's the long story short is it was challenging, but in a lovely way.
Speaker B:By the end of it all and by the time we went through the edits, I felt, or I felt definitely from what readers have said, that that came across in the right way.
Speaker B:And actually it sort of landed in a smoother way than what it looked like in the drafting process, for sure.
Speaker A:Oh, I love that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, as a reader, you would never know at all.
Speaker A:I just read it, just, you know, sunk into it.
Speaker A:Believed all the characters, really connected with them, loved them.
Speaker A:And again, it was one of those books where I was like, oh, I know.
Speaker A:I kind of think I know where we're going.
Speaker A:I'm not sure I want to get there, but I can't leave them.
Speaker A:So it was like, do I want to binge read it?
Speaker A:Or, you know, just sort of.
Speaker A:Which is.
Speaker A:That's my favorite type of book actually.
Speaker A:Like when you're sort of torn between sort of tearing through.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A:Then you had this team where your editors.
Speaker A:All women.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:As well.
Speaker A:That looked so.
Speaker A:That's so lovely, isn't it?
Speaker A:You've got these two women and you.
Speaker A:And then like sort of blending them into all these stories.
Speaker A:That sort of feels really special that you know what Maggie's going through.
Speaker A:She did have a little support network around her.
Speaker A:She just didn't know.
Speaker B:I know that.
Speaker B:And it is amazing.
Speaker B:I loved how each.
Speaker B:Each person literally fed in a different.
Speaker B:More like a suggestion.
Speaker B:And I think one of the ones that I loved in particular from my foreign rights agent was just saying more as much joy as possible through it.
Speaker B:And I think it sort of then was like, that is the purpose of the book.
Speaker B:And actually also want to feel, I think, pops of joy through it because that's the whole purpose of it.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's amazing what having a good sort of editorial team around you can kind of do for a book, I think.
Speaker A:But also they had a very good sort of story and structure and character.
Speaker A:So you gave them lots of things to work with as well.
Speaker A:So it's a really lovely teach effort.
Speaker A:Let's talk about Maggie then.
Speaker A:So I love her and it's really funny.
Speaker A:I do Feel a little bit emotional when I think about the book and Maggie.
Speaker A:So I just really sort of feel for her.
Speaker A:You put her through a lot, obviously.
Speaker A:Like, she's got her health, she's got like a secret from her past and some grief and all sorts that she's trying to.
Speaker A:To live with.
Speaker A:I know you said you saw this woman walking through in your mind and that's where it came from, but where did she come from?
Speaker A:Once you sort of had the idea was she fully formed or did she need more sort of coaxing onto the page?
Speaker A:How did that go for you?
Speaker B:She definitely did.
Speaker B:It's a strange thing.
Speaker B:Maybe it's not a strange thing, but I quite often find it easier to write men.
Speaker B:And it does sound a bit basic to see it, but I often find them a bit more straightforward and maybe they're saying more of what they feel.
Speaker B:And with.
Speaker B:And it was the same with my first book.
Speaker B:I found it much easier to write Robbie in that book than Jen and the same in this one.
Speaker B:I actually found Emily in it, easier to write than Maggie.
Speaker B:I felt that Maggie had more layers to her because you have this part of her which still wants to be seen as a happy enough person and, and having a joke and having a giggle and.
Speaker B:But actually there's a lot of layers of sadness below that.
Speaker B:And that can be quite hard to write when you're sort of putting forward one.
Speaker B:One Persona.
Speaker B:Whereas I find with.
Speaker B:With male characters, William in particular, which you were going to get to later, they're oftentimes just.
Speaker B:They're more out there, like who they are as a person.
Speaker B:I tend to like, they're just there.
Speaker B:And a lot of the time, including my female friends as well, you don't get these layers beneath them until you've.
Speaker B:You've got them one on one and you've spent a bit of time in them and they've kind of softened or they've had a tea and then they're like, actually there's this other stuff happening.
Speaker B:And then you're like, oh, right, okay, now we're.
Speaker B:We're getting to the layers below kind of thing.
Speaker B:And that very often happens.
Speaker B:So I felt with Maggie, it did take a while of teasing and teasing her out of it and working out what her limits were with things and how far she was willing to push herself at each stage, I think.
Speaker B:So it.
Speaker B:That just did take some fine tuning along the way.
Speaker B:Whereas other characters, as I say, like William, just.
Speaker B:Just arrived on the page in all his glory and that was it.
Speaker A:I love William we'll talk about him in a minute.
Speaker A:That's really interesting.
Speaker A:But I guess as well with Maggie, as you say, you're sort of trying to get the reader to sort of know and understand her.
Speaker A:And then you're also sort of balancing the secrets and things that have gone on in her life without sort of, you know.
Speaker A:I love the way you sort of played that along.
Speaker A:So it's like a nice reveal.
Speaker A:And by the time you sort of understand what's happened, you're already in love with Maggie.
Speaker A:Like, I love the reveal, though.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I always like.
Speaker B:I like secrets in books that you always.
Speaker B:For me, that's what keeps me reading any book.
Speaker B:And I'm a big fan of psychological thrillers as well.
Speaker B:So I feel that always feeds into what I write.
Speaker B:Even if I'm writing more towards the romantic side of things.
Speaker B:I like lots of questions, lots of reveals and mysteries kind of happening throughout.
Speaker B:So, yeah, hopefully that.
Speaker B:That adds to.
Speaker B:To I think the layers with Maggie again is a holding Moore back at the start of the story and then it comes out later, I think.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:Okay, I'm going to come back to that and save something for later.
Speaker A:I'd love to talk about the planning for the book then.
Speaker A:So in the opening chapters, Maggie's going off to have this picnic with her family.
Speaker A:There's a big heated argument and then she wakes up in this donor's body, which if you're listening to this and you haven't read it, you're going to be like, it's so believable.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:It's so believable.
Speaker A:I mean, I didn't even question at all.
Speaker A:I'm sure that wasn't easy.
Speaker A:So was there lots of rewriting?
Speaker A:You know, was that the plan or did you have to sort of play with different ideas to make that switch?
Speaker A:How did that work for you, Emma?
Speaker B:I want.
Speaker B:Yeah, I always say saw it as there would be this heated argument.
Speaker B:And I think that's always this sort of.
Speaker B:Hopefully not all the time with.
Speaker B:With family things.
Speaker B:But I think it's this classic thing that if there is an event or things like that often that will cause families friends.
Speaker B:That's when the arguments are actually going to happen.
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:Is towards these more momentous occasions or things that are happening.
Speaker B:So that was always.
Speaker B:And I think it's.
Speaker B:I mean this is probably a basic thing a lot of authors would be like.
Speaker B:Of course it is.
Speaker B:But I do think conflict.
Speaker B:It reveals so much about characters.
Speaker B:I think often tutors in the past.
Speaker B:If anyone is ever struggling With a scene, I think throwing in conflict into it will get the characters talking and you'll just get so much more information than other conversations.
Speaker B:So that was a definite start that I needed them.
Speaker B:I needed them to start provoking each other to get information out of them.
Speaker B:And I think then, hopefully it makes for more of a dramatic shift into the next part of the story.
Speaker B:I think once you've had that sort of heat happening earlier on in the pages.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it does.
Speaker A:I mean, it makes for the dramatic, but it's still very smooth.
Speaker A:So it's not like, whoa, where am I?
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:But I think also by having that argument, you know, when you're sort of following Maggie's story on from that point, being careful of spoilers, but you know, you know what she's left in the situation.
Speaker A:So you're, you know, you're feeling for the family and what they're.
Speaker A:Because it's hard for them as well.
Speaker A:You know, they can see that she's struggling.
Speaker A:She's big in this new heart, this new opportunity to, like, live her life, and she's struggling.
Speaker A:I just thought it was brilliant, Emma.
Speaker A:I really loved that.
Speaker A:It was so, so good.
Speaker A:I'm glad.
Speaker A:So let's talk about this magical realism.
Speaker A:So in your first book, there was an element there as well.
Speaker A:Now, as somebody who grew up loving movies like Freaky Friday and Big, I love these sort of stepping into other being, whatever you might want to call it.
Speaker A:What is it that draws you to these types of stories?
Speaker A:Emma?
Speaker B:Oh, it's so fun.
Speaker B:It's such an interesting question because, I mean, like, you as well, like, I. I read very widely and I watch a wide variety of films, and so I also love inverted comas.
Speaker B:Real stuff.
Speaker B:I love all the real stuff too, but I definitely, yeah, like, you kind of grow up with some of this stuff and things like 13 going on 30.
Speaker B:That sort of film is always particularly special with me because I.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker B:It's just so fun.
Speaker B:The concept is so fun.
Speaker B:And writing for me, that should be part of it is the fun of writing.
Speaker B:And I tend to be drawn towards writing things that have a slightly elevated concept in it.
Speaker B:And for some reason, it just seems to.
Speaker B:It clicks in my brain better.
Speaker B:I can see the story shape better when something's slightly strangers happening.
Speaker B:But what I also like about some things, like phenomenon, superstition, other things is there's something grounded in it.
Speaker B:And as much as I also love things like Big, whereas there's literally a wishing machine.
Speaker B:And that.
Speaker B:That's brilliant and it works really well in films and lots of books as well.
Speaker B:There was almost a slightly geeky side of me that loved the idea of things happening that potentially could be based off something real.
Speaker B:You can read it as a metaphor if you want to read any.
Speaker B:Like either.
Speaker B:I feel like either of my books you could go, did it really happen?
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:It was it, was it, was it real?
Speaker B:I mean to me it's all real but you can read it in different ways.
Speaker B:But I wanted to find something where there was actually grounded basis in books for, for both of these.
Speaker B:So with the first one, shared death experiences is documented by a, a doctor.
Speaker B:Although I'm not sure if he's.
Speaker B:I'm not totally sure what kind of doctor is.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:But details, details.
Speaker B:But it's all grounded accounts.
Speaker B:And yet my, my granny definitely had something like a shared death experience when she was younger and with a.
Speaker B:Definitely with the heart donor thing that is absolutely.
Speaker B:Across the globe people, people have spoken about this sort of thing before.
Speaker B:And I think sometimes I just, I like to stretch it to the furthest possible point because I think if part of me always feels if I'm going to do something, I want to do it 100 so rather than tiptoeing around it and doing a light touch book about it, I just wanted to dump her straight into the heart donor's body and do it that way and take her back a year before the transplant.
Speaker B:And there's just something, there's something fun about it.
Speaker B:It's just going, I've now put my character in a really difficult situation and that's when you get to see what, what they'll do.
Speaker B:And it was the same book.
Speaker B:One put a fun time guy in a really stressful situation he couldn't get out of without doing some hard work.
Speaker B:And the second book, it's again putting a character who really doesn't want to take very many risks into effectively quite a risky, bizarre situation where she has to sort of fight or do nothing basically.
Speaker B:And that is the joy of writing those books.
Speaker B:And they just seem to come out of me.
Speaker B:So as much as I love, I love it when I read other books where they've written something completely real and they've gripped me the whole way and I think it's incredible how they can do that for me.
Speaker B:It just seems that I, I write with a touch of some sort of magical realism in it and that's what comes out of me.
Speaker A:You do it brilliantly.
Speaker A:And actually as you were saying then people say you could read it and like did it Happen.
Speaker A:I felt a little bit defensive then I was like, yeah, you're like, it did happen.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, no mess.
Speaker B:Go there.
Speaker B:It happened.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Calm down, Helen.
Speaker A:So obviously that's what you love and you do really well.
Speaker A:But you mentioned before you love reading like psychological thrillers and things.
Speaker A:Would you ever sort of tried a different direction and do something like that or.
Speaker B:Oh, I mean, I would.
Speaker B:It's so funny because.
Speaker B:I mean, sort of funny.
Speaker B:The first ever book that I wrote was a psychological thriller because I love them so much and that was my first foray into writing.
Speaker B:And I sat down and sort of started writing something quite dark and set in Edinburgh and real as well.
Speaker B:And I did.
Speaker B:I sent it out to agents and I did get some interest in the writing, which was.
Speaker B:Was the best.
Speaker B:Probably my first boost about writing generally.
Speaker B:But I was sort of struggling with, I think, the major plot a bit and I think looking back the hooks, because I was amazed that any.
Speaker B:Looking back now I'm amazed they were requesting it because I think the hook wasn't strong enough.
Speaker B:I think that's the thing.
Speaker B:And I would definitely.
Speaker B:I would love to write a psychological thriller in the future, but I do think these days it has to have a really punchy hook to stick out because there are so many psychological thrillers now and I'm definitely doing my utmost to race through them.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:But yeah, I do definitely.
Speaker B:I think I would wait for a moment where the right thing came along.
Speaker B:I've also thought it might be interesting to do like a magical realism psychological thriller.
Speaker B:Maybe that's the way to do it.
Speaker B:Because I can't help myself because I'm like.
Speaker B:They're just.
Speaker B:It just all automatically to me elevates something up a bit or changes it.
Speaker B:But it's, It's.
Speaker B:It's hard because part of the reason maybe I.
Speaker B:That I like psychological thrillers is because you often feel it could happen.
Speaker B:So there is that element of maybe that's why I actually find them.
Speaker B:That's why I find them so thrilling.
Speaker B:Because you're like, oh, yeah, that.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:But look.
Speaker A:Look at my reaction to Lovely.
Speaker A:When you just said.
Speaker A:Or some people.
Speaker A:And I was like, no, but it's real.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If anyone's going to do it, I think my money is on you, Emma.
Speaker A:No pressure.
Speaker B:Next genre is.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:So the love of our lives, as you said, there is some real joyful moments.
Speaker A:You know, it's very emotional as well.
Speaker A:I absolutely love this book so, so much.
Speaker A:How is it for you when you're writing those emotional scenes and you know, you said at the beginning you didn't know where it was going to end.
Speaker A:I think, you know, I said when you talked about the ending, I felt emotional thinking about it again.
Speaker A:So what was that like for you?
Speaker A:And sort of coming to the end and sort of, you know, how did it happen?
Speaker B:I think it, as I say, like I. I didn't really know what the ending was going to be.
Speaker B:I, I set the book up like with my first book.
Speaker B:I set it up to have an impossible choice at the end because I like doing that to characters and I think it makes it more interesting if there's genuinely something to lose.
Speaker B:I think books sometimes I'll lose interest if I don't feel there's enough at stake.
Speaker B:And there was, that was something a chitter once said to me was just about always remember the stakes to keep them high.
Speaker B:And so for this one it was difficult because I knew there was gonna.
Speaker B:There was one heart, two women, there was going to be a big choice.
Speaker B:And I did try and work out for a while to make everyone happy somehow.
Speaker B:But you eventually come to the realization this is not.
Speaker B:That's not going to work.
Speaker B:It's not gonna work in this concept.
Speaker B:So I did dabble back and forth between how it would work on either side until I eventually picked this side.
Speaker B:But I wanted in particular with this book.
Speaker B:And I think it's just again, the fun of writing different stories.
Speaker B:With my first book I felt on purpose, I did do it on purpose, but I left a few more loose ends with it.
Speaker B:So it wasn't completely bound up and not everything was answered.
Speaker B:And with this one, for whatever reason, I wanted to do a very.
Speaker B:Quite a solid wrap up, I think on it just to do something different.
Speaker B:And I think luckily it has felt that people have responded well to this ending, which was a really delicate ending.
Speaker B:And again, it's that sensitive activity thing.
Speaker B:I had multiple people read it.
Speaker B:I actually had an excellent copywriter who happened to have had a transplant or.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, she'd had a transplant.
Speaker B:That was it.
Speaker B:So it was just one of these weird, you know, these weird cosmic things where you're like, what are the chances that that is who was.
Speaker B:Was checking it all at the end.
Speaker B:And even though it wasn't necessarily on the content, again just little tiny things that were sort of almost delicately added in down the line.
Speaker B:And I felt it just created this, this ending that.
Speaker B:That seems to have satisfied most, I would say people in terms of it cannot.
Speaker B:I mean it's going to be bittersweet But I wanted to leave people with a hopeful note as well and a nice.
Speaker B:A warm feeling.
Speaker B:A warm, fuzzy feeling in amongst some tears.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:We need all those.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So did you feel.
Speaker A:Did you feel quite emotional then when you finished?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it was draining.
Speaker B:It is always.
Speaker B:I do find writing emotional things draining, but very cathartic.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I'm definitely, as they say in the holiday, I'm a weeper, so it's good for me to have a weep now and then.
Speaker B:And definitely with.
Speaker B:I think it was the last few lines, actually, I loved writing the last chapter of that book.
Speaker B:There was just something, as I say, there was something very hopeful and I wanted there to be this warm feeling at the end of, oh, things are, things are.
Speaker B:Some things are going to work out here.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, just.
Speaker B:I think the last few lines in particular were really nice to write and I had them quite set in my head.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I could see the ending, I could see where the characters were and we were coming back full circle because it finishes in the Botanics in Edinburgh as it starts, despite having gone around the world by that point.
Speaker B:And I loved the sort of.
Speaker B:The mirroring, but how it was then left in a completely different way.
Speaker B:So for me, it was a really enjoyable experience.
Speaker A:I want to go and read the ending again now.
Speaker A:Get some tissues and some chocolate and go through.
Speaker A:Because I'm a weeper too.
Speaker A:I'm definitely a weeper.
Speaker A:Just before we finish, then, to talk about your other book choices, we have to just have a quick chat about William.
Speaker A:Door, William.
Speaker A:He is so lovely and he has so many lines in this book that are just so wise and lovely.
Speaker A:And I just wanted to read out one of the quotes.
Speaker A:So this.
Speaker A:When he's talking to Maggie, he says, it's not the length of time we're here, it's what we do in that time.
Speaker A:It's about living your life every single day to the end, or it's an utter disservice to those who can't.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I don't care what your reasoning is for not for doing nothing, because the only truth is that you're letting fear stop you, and that's just not good enough.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Love that.
Speaker A:I mean, I feel like that's a really strong message throughout the book.
Speaker A:You know, sort of gratitude, seizing the moment, you know, whatever way that is, it just, you know, however you're living your life, what is it that you're hoping, Emma, that readers will take away from this one?
Speaker B:I think it is literally just that I'm.
Speaker B:As many people have.
Speaker B:I have quite a lot of.
Speaker B:I'm quite a happy person, but I have a lot of anxiety.
Speaker B:I worry all the time.
Speaker B:I have OCD as well.
Speaker B:And so I've spent my life kind of grappling internally with myself of wanting to go out and do lots of things and then having a lot of worry about it and all the things that could go wrong with that.
Speaker B:And I think sometimes we can get up on the wrong side of the bed as well and the day just falls apart.
Speaker B:And I think I wanted people to sort of go ahead and go, do you know what?
Speaker B:Things might not be perfect in your life right now and things might be going wrong as well, and lots of struggles, but it's.
Speaker B:You never know what each day has ahead.
Speaker B:And it is literally the tiny little joys as well that I think I've seen it around before as well.
Speaker B:But like being excited about a good cup of tea or a good cup of coffee or going to meet a friend and just kind of really appreciating those little things, I think are such mood boosters, particularly this time of year.
Speaker B:I think it gets darker, it's colder.
Speaker B:More of a struggle to kind of get out on a walk or all this kind of thing, a run and.
Speaker B:But I think it is just looking for those.
Speaker B:I think on the Internet they were calling them glimmers.
Speaker B:That's the word.
Speaker B:But it's that kind of.
Speaker B:It's a glimmer book.
Speaker B:It's going, what is.
Speaker B:What is this day ahead?
Speaker B:This one day got.
Speaker B:That's going to make you happy and.
Speaker B:And kind of make.
Speaker B:Just go and make the most of it, basically.
Speaker B:Because that is the crux of it.
Speaker A:I think that's so lovely.
Speaker A:Hard relate as well on the.
Speaker A:That's exactly the same.
Speaker A:I'm the same.
Speaker A:And I will quite often be sort of focusing on big things and working towards me too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then this book is a real reminder, as you say, to sort of.
Speaker A:In this.
Speaker A:In the opening chat, I said to you in the opening chapter, there's a scene where she talks about her father's hair, his white hair being transparent and like just sort of catching those moments.
Speaker A:I see my.
Speaker A:So my son did it this morning, actually when I was taking to school.
Speaker A:He's like, look, all the roofs are wide.
Speaker B:I was like, yes, I know, that's it.
Speaker A:They're just those little moments.
Speaker B:Pops of joy.
Speaker B:I think that's the thing.
Speaker B:I had that a bit to do.
Speaker B:It was, you know, I Saw there was really frosty leaves on the ground, and I thought, oh, it's so.
Speaker B:It's so lovely that it's not the soaking wet rain today.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's blue in the sky and frosty leaves.
Speaker B:And I was like, this is lovely.
Speaker B:And I'm off to do a podcast.
Speaker A:So that's.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, Emma.
Speaker A:So the love of our lives is out now.
Speaker A:As I said, we're recording this in November.
Speaker A:Episodes coming out in January.
Speaker A:Do grab a copy and fall in love.
Speaker A:It is wonderful.
Speaker A:And actually, Emma's previous book as well, the Echoes of Us, I would also highly recommend.
Speaker A:So before we move on to talk about your book choices, just to remind listeners that all of the books we're talking about and the ones we've already mentioned will be listed in the show notes.
Speaker A:So, Emma, how did you find picking your 700 books?
Speaker B:Very, very hard.
Speaker B:And I've realized I was also meant to mention one of them earlier.
Speaker B:I didn't, so.
Speaker A:That's okay.
Speaker B:That's okay.
Speaker A:That's okay.
Speaker A:So should we put one as an honor?
Speaker A:Because we've actually got six.
Speaker A:Well, we haven't really got six, have we?
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:About 600, really.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Okay, let's start then.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:What's your first book choice, Emma?
Speaker B:My first one is after you'd gone by Maggie o', Farrell, just because she is a cracking, cracking writer.
Speaker B:And every time I read her work, she makes me fall in love with reading and writing again.
Speaker B:And that, and after you'd gone to me, is the epitome of a proper love story.
Speaker B:It just sings.
Speaker B:I. I think is the word.
Speaker B:So that's the first one there.
Speaker A:I only read it for the first time this year.
Speaker A:I read it with my book club because it was the anniversary edition that came out, and I was like, how have I not picked it up?
Speaker B:I'm so jealous.
Speaker B:I was so jealous when I heard that.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm jealous that you got to read it for that first time.
Speaker B:Because I almost can't remember quite the first time I read it, but I do remember impacting me really, really heavily, that book.
Speaker B:Yeah, I wept again.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She is brilliant.
Speaker A:I'm so excited for her new book, Land.
Speaker B:Always.
Speaker B:Always.
Speaker B:I heard the name and I was like, of course.
Speaker B:Of course she's read the book.
Speaker A:I've been lucky.
Speaker A:I've been sent the trailer for.
Speaker A:For it.
Speaker A:It's not being released yet, but so I've had a little sort of sneak preview, and I just can't wait.
Speaker A:I Was literally.
Speaker A:I finished watching.
Speaker A:I was like, can I read it now?
Speaker B:Oh, it's just her books are magical.
Speaker B:And Hamnet, I'm very excited to go and see it because I had.
Speaker B:I had a magical moment when I read Hamnet for the first time because I was sitting on the sofa and this was five years ago.
Speaker B:It was five years ago with.
Speaker B:And we'd just gotten our dog Sunny, who is our beloved now.
Speaker B:But at that point, he was four months old, and I wasn't quite sure what we'd taken on.
Speaker B:And I was reading Hamnet, and he came and sat beside me and snuggled me while I was reading this beautiful book.
Speaker B:And I looked down at him and I was like, oh, that's.
Speaker B:That's a very warm moment between us.
Speaker B:And it was this sort of weird thing when it sort of involves.
Speaker B:So now I almost like associate Sunny with Hamnet and this sort of reading experience as well.
Speaker A:He was being your emotional support dog for it.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:Okay, let's move on to book number two, then.
Speaker B:Book number two, I would say.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Jane Eyre was the second one.
Speaker B:And I think the reason was, again, I read it when I was young and my mum was always.
Speaker B:Has always been a voracious reader.
Speaker B:So I read much more of the older books when I was younger and growing up.
Speaker B:These were the ones that she sort of passed to me.
Speaker B:And so some of these older classics, I guess, are very much bound up in my childhood and.
Speaker B:And what formed my way of thinking with books and what I loved about it, and it's probably stayed with me as well, is, is the whole concept of sweeping romance, but with a dark story as well, and mystery and these kind of sort of surly.
Speaker B:Surly heroes that are lurking around in the story as well.
Speaker B:And really strong female characters too.
Speaker B:I just think, as many people do, it's a wonderful story.
Speaker B:But it definitely the.
Speaker B:These stories that you read when you're younger.
Speaker B:I mean, I probably read it when I was 11 or 12 or something like that.
Speaker B:And they.
Speaker B:I feel like they.
Speaker B:They get into your system and then they live there forever because you've taken them on quite an early stage in life.
Speaker B:And you grow up with these.
Speaker B:These characters in you.
Speaker A:It's funny because when your list came through, I was like.
Speaker A:I mean, I've read it a long time ago.
Speaker A:I don't know what age I'd be.
Speaker A:I was like.
Speaker A:As I sort of looking at covers to put in the show notes, I was like, quite fancy reading that again now.
Speaker B:Actually, it made me want to do it again.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Because I've seen all the versions.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm not drawn to them naturally, but I was like, oh, I quite fancy a little revit, maybe because it's like winter.
Speaker A:It feels like it's a nice time to sort of.
Speaker B:It's a good winter book, I would say.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So nap.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right, buddy.
Speaker A:Read.
Speaker A:Okay, so we're gonna move on to book number three, then.
Speaker B:And that, again, is similar, but I couldn't ignore it was Little Women, because, again, it was a really.
Speaker B:In fact, all those books were very much part of my childhood.
Speaker B:And also, just.
Speaker B:There's a lot about family in it, a lot about sister bonds, and the love of her life has sister bonds in it.
Speaker B:There are three sisters actually involved in that one.
Speaker B:And again, I think all these kind of important books feed into your system at a certain point, and then they sort of come out down the line.
Speaker B:So things like.
Speaker B:That's probably why I loved Blue Sisters so much, again, because it's got that.
Speaker B:That air of.
Speaker B:Of Little Women.
Speaker B:And I. I think those familial BO Bonds in books are.
Speaker B:They can really get to the heart of a story really well if you explore them enough.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, that's my.
Speaker B:My third big one.
Speaker A:It's a huge.
Speaker A:I remember buying the book, I think it was last year.
Speaker A:I was like, I'm gonna read it.
Speaker A:And it turned up.
Speaker A:It's huge.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, what am I taking on?
Speaker A:I remember being quite such a chunk.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm gonna watch one of the movies.
Speaker A:My daughter actually randomly started talking about the movie that she wants to watch of Little Women.
Speaker A:So I'm like, okay, so we're gonna watch that together, which would be quite.
Speaker B:Is it.
Speaker B:Is it the 90s one or the most recent one?
Speaker A:She wants to watch the most recent.
Speaker B:One, which is good.
Speaker B:Do you know, I rewatched it again.
Speaker B:I haven't seen it.
Speaker B:It's a lovely.
Speaker B:It's a lovely version, but my heart is still with the 90s version, I would say.
Speaker B:I realize.
Speaker A:Yeah, I might try and get her to.
Speaker A:There's obviously somebody.
Speaker A:I can't think who the cast is.
Speaker A:There's obviously somebody in it that she sort of.
Speaker B:It's Emma.
Speaker B:Emma Watson's in it.
Speaker A:And that be.
Speaker B:I can't remember.
Speaker B:S. That's it.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker A:So, yeah, we're planning that this Christmas.
Speaker B:So that's a great idea.
Speaker B:I might do that with my oldest, actually.
Speaker B:Maybe so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Another one to weep at.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Okay, let's talk about book number Four then.
Speaker B:And so I'm trying to remember actually which one was.
Speaker B:Oh, so Time Traveler's Wife.
Speaker B:That's what I was supposed to mention earlier.
Speaker A:So the.
Speaker B:The fourth one is the Time Traveler's Wife.
Speaker B:And again, a big reason is I read it slightly later than when it came out.
Speaker B:I didn't read it when it initially came out.
Speaker B:And it was my best friend actually said, sent this message.
Speaker B:She was like, oh, you have to read this, Emma.
Speaker B:This is so you.
Speaker B:And I was like, what do you mean, it's so me?
Speaker B:And I think by that point, things like, you know, Moulin Rouge had been out.
Speaker B:And I. I'm a big fan of quite dramatic love stories, I would say, or something strange or wonderful is happening or just sweeping ones.
Speaker B:And I read the Time Traveler's Wife, and it just blew my socks off because at that point there just wasn't a lot of that stuff around.
Speaker B:It was that kind of first appearance of this.
Speaker B:This time travel love system.
Speaker B:And I just.
Speaker B:I loved how well written it was as well, and the characters just felt so real.
Speaker B:And I think books like that and books like Maggie o' Farrell's After He'd Gone made me realize that you can sort of write however you want in a way, to a point.
Speaker B:That's the whole point of creativity.
Speaker B:You can kind of experiment with things on the page a bit.
Speaker B:And that, I guess, allowed me to be published for the first time, was the Echoes of Us.
Speaker B:And there was a lot of time skipping in it, and I let myself play with time and movement in stories.
Speaker B:So that definitely shaped writing for me and sort of opened up my.
Speaker B:My brain, I think, to other ways of structuring a book, which was instrumental in sort of getting attention initially with my writing.
Speaker B:So, yeah, good.
Speaker B:Great book.
Speaker A:So it's the most picked book on this series.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:And I thought before I saw your list, I was like, I wonder if it's going to be on Emma's, because I think it's very you as well.
Speaker A:And when you say you read it a bit later.
Speaker A:I only just read it I.
Speaker A:Couple of months ago.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:You're like, I'm gonna have to pick this now.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:I was like, people get right.
Speaker A:It was actually Gillian McAllister picked it.
Speaker A:And then she was like, what do you mean you haven't read?
Speaker A:You have to read it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A: So I made it my: Speaker B:Did you enjoy it?
Speaker B:Did you enjoy it?
Speaker A:I did enjoy it.
Speaker A:I wish that I'd read it earlier because reading it.
Speaker A:So, like, as a mum in my late 40s, there are parts where I was like, oh, this grown man appearing at this chart.
Speaker A:So I was like, just read it, like, and not think too much about it.
Speaker A:So that.
Speaker B:I think that younger I've.
Speaker B:Because I've heard that sort of thing since.
Speaker B:And it is interesting because when I say I read it later, I was still.
Speaker B:I was in my.
Speaker B:Or I was in my 20s, so.
Speaker B:And I didn't have kids.
Speaker B:And you take it sort of first.
Speaker B:You know, first value kind of thing.
Speaker B:But there is definitely that slightly.
Speaker B:When you start thinking about it too much, then it's like, oh, that is weird.
Speaker B:That's quite weird.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, you do.
Speaker B:Like, that's weird.
Speaker B:It's better to have just read it in the past and not thought about it too much.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:Yeah, just look at it.
Speaker A:Time travel.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I had to sort of keep doing a.
Speaker A:It's fiction.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's fiction.
Speaker A:Like, move to one side, get past it.
Speaker A:But, yeah, so I wish I had read it, but I am glad I read it.
Speaker A:And, yeah, now it comes up and I'm like, yeah, I've read that one too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Tick, tick.
Speaker A:Okay, so your fifth book.
Speaker B:So the.
Speaker B:The fifth books is all.
Speaker B:All of the books by Frieda McFadden.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And a reason for, again, is conversely with her.
Speaker B:I. I feel like her books have shown me yet again just the.
Speaker B:The escapism of books, because when I'm ill, I read Frieda McFadden or I listen to it because it's not.
Speaker B:It's very exciting, it's not taxing.
Speaker B:And I think sometimes people forget that a lot of reading and writing is supposed to be entertainment as well.
Speaker B:So I think there's a time and a place for every kind of writing.
Speaker B:And sometimes I absolutely want something deeper and with lots of meaning in it, and that might rip out my soul, but sometimes I don't want to think about how hard the world is, or I don't want to be existential.
Speaker B:I literally just want something to take me away, out of the moment, if I'm struggling with something or I feel sick or low.
Speaker B:And her books just do that.
Speaker B:That you can gulp them down in a couple of days.
Speaker B:And there's something really special about that book that.
Speaker B:That makes you read them so quickly and you feel like.
Speaker B:I feel like I've watched a film, watched a cracking thriller film, but actually I've read it and there's something slower about that process, which is lovely.
Speaker B:So I always.
Speaker B:I've got a real Soft spot.
Speaker B:I'm reading one of the ones at the moment alongside another book, which is deeper.
Speaker B:So I like to do that.
Speaker B:I like to sometimes have a couple on the go and an audible.
Speaker B:So I may be doing too much with them at the moment.
Speaker B:But it provides that kind of.
Speaker B:Do you know what?
Speaker B:I'm tired today.
Speaker B:I'm gonna read a few chapters of her stuff.
Speaker B:And that is not a bad thing.
Speaker B:It's a great thing.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I'm like.
Speaker B:I find it really.
Speaker B:It's amazing what she's done, really.
Speaker A:So I was late to the Frieda party as well.
Speaker A:So I only read the Housemaid, I think, last month.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that.
Speaker A:I was a bit like, oh, I don't think it's my thing.
Speaker A:But my daughter wanted to read it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And she was like, can you read it so you can tell me if it's, like, okay for me?
Speaker A:So I was like, okay.
Speaker A:And she wants to watch a movie.
Speaker A:And as you say, it's that you want to be entertained sometimes.
Speaker A:I read a lot of books where I'm having to sort of really think and concentrate or be really moved or challenged in other ways.
Speaker A:I flew through that book.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was totally entertained.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I am so excited for the movie.
Speaker A:I will happily pick up more of her books.
Speaker A:And my daughter's reading at the moment, and it's quite nice, actually, because then we can sort of talk about, you know, what's going on in there and things.
Speaker A:But she's.
Speaker A:She's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She introduced me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:To freedom of padding.
Speaker B:Well, this is it.
Speaker B:And actually, she puts that sort of content thing at the start that in a weird way, she wants it to be relatively okay to read at different stages.
Speaker A:I love that she puts that in the beginning as well.
Speaker A:Because, like, you know, I was thinking if you look at the Housemaid, you know, it is quite dark.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's going on?
Speaker A:But actually, because she's reading it with me, we can sort of talk about what's going on.
Speaker A:And she's picking up things that actually, I'm like, oh, that's quite good, actually.
Speaker A:I'm glad.
Speaker A:I'm glad you've noticed that.
Speaker A:So it's a nice way to sort of introduce, like, these books.
Speaker A:I'm not saying that they're starter thrillers.
Speaker A:I mean, she's 13 and she's.
Speaker A:That's what she wants to read.
Speaker A:So they've been great.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think they are.
Speaker B:Yeah, they're great.
Speaker B:And they've got.
Speaker B:There's all.
Speaker B:She puts trigger warnings online too.
Speaker B:So they've obviously done their work around trying to make it fun for everyone to read as well.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, okay.
Speaker A:Love that.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:So we're gonna have our honorary mention then, because we can't.
Speaker A:We can't, we can't.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:She'd never know.
Speaker A:I would know.
Speaker A:So come on, then, tell us about your sixth book.
Speaker B:My honorary sixth one is Kristin Hannah.
Speaker B:And I mean, I'll keep it short, but it is, for the same reason as Frida McFadden.
Speaker B:Slightly different.
Speaker B:I just love her books.
Speaker B:I race through them.
Speaker B:They are pure entertainment.
Speaker B:But I also, with her ones, feel like I'm learning something about history and most of them, them.
Speaker B:So it's just if I.
Speaker B:Again, I'm struggling or I'm having a reading block of any sort, I generally will be like, oh, there's another one of her books that I haven't read.
Speaker B:And even I. I read the Night Road in the summer, and I wasn't overly thinking.
Speaker B:The blurb was, like, hugely hooky.
Speaker B:But I thought, well, I'll.
Speaker B:I'll.
Speaker B:I'll really enjoy it because it's her book.
Speaker B:Read the Night Road.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I was blown away.
Speaker B:I was like, how has she entertained me this hard in a story that I didn't even, you know, I wasn't massively gravitating to the hook, but I read it because it was hers.
Speaker B:And yet again, I was like, that's amazing.
Speaker B:This is just a really entertaining read.
Speaker B:She's just hit this wonderful sweet spot between Pace.
Speaker B:They're really pacey, but they are often dealing with deeper subjects and often historical themes as well.
Speaker B:And I just think she's just really nailed.
Speaker B:Nailed this part of the market somehow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I haven't read the Night Road, actually.
Speaker A:I do find I savor her book.
Speaker A:So, like, I've got a few and I'm like, oh, no, I won't read that one yet.
Speaker A:I'll save it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:You're like, I want that one just.
Speaker B:There so I could read it if I needed it.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:But I think what she also does as well, she does brilliantly as women's stories in her.
Speaker A:You know, the Women and the Nightingale, they're just really fantastic.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Readable, moving, you know, brilliant, brilliant stories.
Speaker A:So I love her and I never.
Speaker B:Know where she's going.
Speaker B:Like in the great alone.
Speaker B:I thought I knew what that book was gonna be, but she just kept twisting it the whole way through.
Speaker B:And I was like, I just.
Speaker B:It just carried me to the end of the book and that's what I love about it.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:I don't know what she's gonna do with her plot exactly, but she always pulls it off really, really well.
Speaker B:So well done, her.
Speaker A:I was lucky enough to meet her a few years ago.
Speaker A:I went to a book event and I got chatting to her before it started.
Speaker A:And she is lovely.
Speaker A:She's so interesting as well, like.
Speaker A:She is.
Speaker A:She's definitely got a mind that's constantly ticking over.
Speaker A:Like, you can see the way she is.
Speaker A:So if you ever have a chance to go and see her at an event.
Speaker B:Oh, I would love to see her in event, actually.
Speaker B:But yeah, just.
Speaker B:I just love it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So normally we say, if you could only read one of these books again, which one would it be?
Speaker A:I'm going to make it slightly more for you.
Speaker A:So if you pick either Frieda or Kristen, you have to name one of theirs.
Speaker B:Oh, that's awful.
Speaker B:Do you know, I'm going to.
Speaker B:I'm going to pick Chris and Hannah because.
Speaker B:Because of the fact that then I can also get the history in it as well.
Speaker A:Right, okay.
Speaker A:Which one of hers would it be?
Speaker B:It would be the Nightingale.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, That's.
Speaker B:It's just a solid.
Speaker B:It's a solid one.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it's one I could actually pick up again, actually.
Speaker B:Like, I might reread it before I watch the film that's coming out.
Speaker B:I don't know what's coming out, but that could be a good point to go back through it again.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:Emma, it has been so lovely.
Speaker A:I did notice that you snuck in quite a lot of books there as well.
Speaker A:But I loved it.
Speaker A:I'm so here.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:And thanks so much for having me as well.
Speaker B:It's been a brilliant chat.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:It's been lovely.
Speaker A:I've loved it.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
Speaker A:Didn't you do well to sneak in all those extra books?
Speaker A:I can almost hear my TBR shelves groaning at all the extra books.
Speaker A:I want to add now.
Speaker A:The Love of Our Lives by Emma Steele is out now.
Speaker A:It's one that I would highly recommend and I'd say also grab a copy of her debut, the Echoes of Us, because it is fabulous.
Speaker A:I know you'll love it too.
Speaker A:As always, all of the books we've talked about are in the show notes with links to buy.
Speaker A:So do go and check those out.
Speaker A:If you're enjoying the series.
Speaker A:I would be so grateful if you could take the time to rate for few a view.
Speaker A:Subscribe and tell your friends about it.
Speaker A:It makes such a big difference to the show and I would be so grateful.
Speaker A:I'll be back on Thursday chatting to another author and I really hope to see you then.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening.
Speaker A:Take care.
